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Attunement on DS access  

98 members have voted

  1. 1. Should players have to acquire FL NM clear achievement to access both DS dungeons and DS raid?

    • Yes, but make it account wide
      20
    • Yes, but make it character based
      31
    • Not sure
      4
    • No
      43


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Aethyr    8

Hello developers and Atlantiss staff.

I hear DS dungeons are almost fixed and ready to be released to us, the players. And I am very grateful for your service that you provide us to allow us to experience the content that Cataclysm has to offer.

However, I would like for you to consider this suggestion, to keep old content from becoming obsolete, which to me, is a very important aspect of any private server that wishes its players to have an endless (well.. a very huge amount) supply of content to enjoy. 

I have been playing private servers on and off for 5 years now, and I can't help but notice the lack of dedication to the old raids once the last content of the patch has been released. All of those months or years of hard work being put into previous tiers have been all for nothing because players are able to bypass for this instance, T11 and T12. This in turn have seen a huge decrease in population and later making servers become empty because the content has been played far too much and people have become bored of what has been offered.

My suggestion is to implement an "attunement" to access DS dungeons and the raid of Dragon Soul. Even if its character or account based, this will allow raids to still be alive despite DS being released, it gives those who raid an incentive to actually raid T11/T12 without jumping the queue into DS dungeons, which will mean less content to enjoy apart from those rare transmog runs that no one has a clue about.

Yes, some players might be stuck but after dedication from those group of people they will be able to delve into DS content.

My proposition is this. I used to play a WotLK server that had this attunement process in place, however it wasn't account wide but character based. You were required to achieve the full clear achievement of the raid to enter the next. This includes:

Naxx10 - Uld10 - ToC10 - ICC10    (Uld10 keepers = ToC dungeon + Korva10)

Naxx25 - Uld25 - ToC25 - ICC25    (Uld25 keepers = ToC dungeon + Korva25)

Since this server is still in ToC patch, they have confirmed the ICC dungeons will require ToC clear

Considering we have one lockout for each raid and T11 has already been made obsolete in a way, I propose you implement a feature that requires FL NM full clear achievement to be permitted access into DS dungeon and raid, in return players will have more content to delve into rather then just T13.

I will make this topic a poll, to enquire the members of the community of their opinion on this suggestion

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Enraya    16

Good idea. I just approved your topic and voted for the second option. Hoping other players make a vote too.

 

Greetings,

Enraya

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Sathus    477

I understand where you are coming from. Here, T11 was pretty great. A lot more fun than Firelands if you ask me. Now that most of the gear there is useless, no one runs it anymore. So as I said, I understand your point. However, what you are offering will simply not help. Most players already have fl achievement, and those who don't will just run it once. That won't change a thing. 

Im a " no" on this one. We just need to learn to move on. We will have to, anyway. 

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Piklo19    97

"In this place you can make your suggestions about server, forum, website, etc. Remember about the Blizzlike rule we're respecting!"

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Axelito    81

Well I'd rather have a less Blizzlike server that is alive than a Blizzlike server that is more dead than a Texas sallad bar.

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Durst    38

Honestly, I am a big fan of attunements, however, it's pointless trying to implement something like this in an expansion with catch-up mechanics in place - previous tier items for JP would still be available from simple heroic dungeon farm. It wouldn't bring anyone a feel of progression, it would feel as an obstacle you have to do once and be done with it, like Sathus pointed out. Also, our server is trying to replicate blizzlike experience as much as they can, and this wouldn't be a part of that. Finally, I don't see that improving the amount of the players on the server at all, since the population decrease is a very usual thing for private servers running the same expansion, they are bound to run into a content drought at one point or the other :)

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Aethyr    8

Indeed, I agree, however its always best to look at options to try and preserve the content that the server has to offer.

To only have T13 content worth running will make that drought come sooner then anticipated. 

Could always have the DS dungeons to require this such attunement, that way those who are unlucky with item drops are able to gear up as well with their comrades

Thank you for your input, I do appreciate it :)

 

I do urge the server to come forward and give their view onto this suggestion via poll or comments

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Jpegx    12
53 minutes ago, Sniprepgodx said:

It's a "no" from me, they already said it. After DS launches FL nm will be irrelevant.
Tho I'm just gonna stick with my usual suggestion. Wipe the server and start again from T11. This is clearly the best solution if you want to keep your players.
Either to do it now or after some time of DS, and you can just roll the content on and on. Server already has almost all the content "finished" and with each wipe it would be more and more polished.
Anyone who raided tier 11 will tell you that progression of it was the best time they had on ATS.

Suggestion on how to implement this w/o people losing their minds for their chars.
1.Create new realm
2.Move all characters there
3.1.Remove all the gear/stuff in bags and banks and reset all characters to lvl 1, and wipe all PvE achievements and titles.
3.2.Remove all the gear/stuff in bags and banks and give characters fulls set of twilight highlands gear if they're 85, if less they can keep equipped gear(cannot think anything else about low levels, so this is as close as i got).
4. Release both next Raid Tiers & Arena Seasons 1-2 months after previous ones are cleared to keep the content in state as it should be w/o implementing custom buffs.

#nocensorshippls , cheers

most retarded thing i've ever read... enough Atlantiss for today i guess x)

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Kirraq    119
56 minutes ago, Sniprepgodx said:

Tho I'm just gonna stick with my usual suggestion. Wipe the server and start again from T11. This is clearly the best solution if you want to keep your players.

lol

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Aethyr    8

That suggestion is more counter productive more then anything

 

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Kejmil    90

It's pointless Snip, current population doesn't care for proper progres "feels", they would prefer farming content to no end and fapping to items they have right now.

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Clem    82

Im always up for "attunement"s. Even tho yes it is not blizzlike personally i think its really good idea. For organized guilds that doesnt change anything but for pugs yes i prefer to have people in the run that actually did something before going into DS for example. When you are bad player you gonna get stuck in lower tier raids which makes the end raids easier faster and better experience than having someone who just leveled up for very first time in his life does dungeons for a week and then keeps wiping pugs because have no clue what is going on around him. Yes ofc people like that will still exist and get carried to get "attuned" but you got my point. About Sniprepgodx suggestion (to keep rerolling the raids) I am really not a fan of it. After i clear DS and have nothing to do there anymore im switching expansion for sure atlantiss or not depends on what exapnsions server can offer. Yes its fun to progress from begining of expansion but not all the time with same expansion. Thats why i was hyped years ago when someone was working on mop core from atlantiss. Finish DS and sooner or later after that Pandaland comes i keep my character progress and i switch forward to new expansion (assuming they would have opened char transfers from cata to MoP). But then we saw that pandaland was abandoned and they started working on PTE so thats out of the window i guess. Anyway "attunement" yes please for everything. Meaning havent done all dungeons? You not entering in T11 mate. No T11 cleared? Keep dreaming about FL. And so on. Thats my opinion. Ohh and keep it character based not acc for obvious reasons.

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ceiron    3
3 hours ago, Aethyr said:

Hello developers and Atlantiss staff.

I hear DS dungeons are almost fixed and ready to be released to us, the players. And I am very grateful for your service that you provide us to allow us to experience the content that Cataclysm has to offer.

However, I would like for you to consider this suggestion, to keep old content from becoming obsolete, which to me, is a very important aspect of any private server that wishes its players to have an endless (well.. a very huge amount) supply of content to enjoy. 

I have been playing private servers on and off for 5 years now, and I can't help but notice the lack of dedication to the old raids once the last content of the patch has been released. All of those months or years of hard work being put into previous tiers have been all for nothing because players are able to bypass for this instance, T11 and T12. This in turn have seen a huge decrease in population and later making servers become empty because the content has been played far too much and people have become bored of what has been offered.

My suggestion is to implement an "attunement" to access DS dungeons and the raid of Dragon Soul. Even if its character or account based, this will allow raids to still be alive despite DS being released, it gives those who raid an incentive to actually raid T11/T12 without jumping the queue into DS dungeons, which will mean less content to enjoy apart from those rare transmog runs that no one has a clue about.

Yes, some players might be stuck but after dedication from those group of people they will be able to delve into DS content.

My proposition is this. I used to play a WotLK server that had this attunement process in place, however it wasn't account wide but character based. You were required to achieve the full clear achievement of the raid to enter the next. This includes:

Naxx10 - Uld10 - ToC10 - ICC10    (Uld10 keepers = ToC dungeon + Korva10)

Naxx25 - Uld25 - ToC25 - ICC25    (Uld25 keepers = ToC dungeon + Korva25)

Since this server is still in ToC patch, they have confirmed the ICC dungeons will require ToC clear

Considering we have one lockout for each raid and T11 has already been made obsolete in a way, I propose you implement a feature that requires FL NM full clear achievement to be permitted access into DS dungeon and raid, in return players will have more content to delve into rather then just T13.

I will make this topic a poll, to enquire the members of the community of their opinion on this suggestion

no /slap

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Kirraq    119

My dear Sniprep, some players including myself have very limited time and cant quiet play whenever, so having to level/gear every X months all over again is a no no for us or any PvP players.

Making a new realm would only split the population that Atlantiss has and its even worse having 2 realms at peak 800-900 than 1 realm at 2k-ish and even with that realm many would pretty soon get bored of ->Raid 3 raids->Gear up>Realm Wipe  cycle

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Kirraq    119

@Sniprepgodx

Fair point about PvP gearing, even though some people gear with only BGs for some reason, but fine.

Imo its even dumber to completly delete the realm as theres a lot of people who dont want to have all of their progress and work gone just like that (fucking MoltenWoW wipe flashbacks :unsure:

Its a good idea to some, terrible to others, I think if people really like going freshly through old raids no one is stopping them from making new characters with a couple of buddies and starting fresh, you may not be racing for realm first, but you will probably have fun, there was a guy that made a thread trying to do just this but I dont think enough people were interested.

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bennaye    0
10 hours ago, Sniprepgodx said:

It's a "no" from me, they already said it. After DS launches FL nm will be irrelevant.
Tho I'm just gonna stick with my usual suggestion. Wipe the server and start again from T11. This is clearly the best solution if you want to keep your players.
Either to do it now or after some time of DS, and you can just roll the content on and on. Server already has almost all the content "finished" and with each wipe it would be more and more polished.
Anyone who raided tier 11 will tell you that progression of it was the best time they had on ATS.

Suggestion on how to implement this w/o people losing their minds for their chars.
1.Create new realm
2.Move all characters there
3.1.Remove all the gear/stuff in bags and banks and reset all characters to lvl 1, and wipe all PvE achievements and titles.
3.2.Remove all the gear/stuff in bags and banks and give characters fulls set of twilight highlands gear if they're 85, if less they can keep equipped gear(cannot think anything else about low levels, so this is as close as i got).
4. Release both next Raid Tiers & Arena Seasons 1-2 months after previous ones are cleared to keep the content in state as it should be w/o implementing custom buffs.

#nocensorshippls , cheers

I agree progression is good and integral to the WoW experience, but this is too high a cost. Your best solution to keep existing players, as evidenced in your second sentence, is to wipe everything players have worked for thus far and make them start all over again in the name of progression, going so far as to wipe the entire realm, everyone's bags and all their PvE achievements. And this is the solution that won't make players lose their minds? Please tell me this is trolling. Not everyone is endgame like yourself and is jonesing for their next progression feels fix, and for the people still in the process of progressing, this is a major setback. What about those close to or already have Dragonwrath? Oops, guess they're just gonna quit because some guy on the forum couldn't progress anymore. I'm pretty sure the devs have zero interest in creating a new realm, porting over every toon, resetting their bags and banks and PvE achievements, filtering out all the 85s and non 85s and wiping the current realm, all in the name of player retention. And frankly, I don't want them to have interest because they have way better things to do, like scripting DS so the rest of us can progress. The best solution for you is to get a group of guildies and roll new toons. By all means, you're welcome to progress all you want from there but leave the rest of us alone, please. The majority of us happen to like our accounts, and especially our mains.

As for the original post, I voted yes for characters only, but that's only because there wasn't a "makes no real difference" option and because I found FL fun. FL will likely still be relevant in DS due to the legendary weapon being BiS going into DS (except maybe for DS HC gear), and also because it's a dope legendary in general. It doesn't really make a difference whether you attune the instance or not since FL has been out for a while now and most everyone who wants to raid DS will already have the FL achievement. As such, this would only affect new players but there aren't that many new players to warrant Atlantiss breaking their Blizzlike rule and making a new attunement quest/NPC/whatever.  

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boniboniboni    103

Technically, the content is there. But as we all know, ilvl>fun>skill.

 

I don't think there's an easy solution to this. I still believe the best one is to keep looking for like-minded people who want to do t11hc. And if there are none, well, i guess there's just no point in hanging around. At least that's what i did. I just couldn't stand another second of FL. I don't think forcing people to do content one way or another is ok, tho if the staff finds a way to do that in a fun and challenging way, i hope they will earn a lot of respect on the pserver scene, because this problem is plaguing other servers as well.

 

Seriously tho, if atlantiss taught me anything, it was to hate Firelands with a burning passion that matches Ragnaros's rage. T11hc was so much better in so many ways. But oh well, 'muh gaerz' i guess.

 

But no, seriously, Dragon Soul is absolute shit. Even if atlantiss devs script it perfectly (And i still do admire the quality of scripting here, i think it's very good and i believe the devs will do a good job scripting DS nicely), it will be a perfectly scripted shit.

 

Seriously now, back when i played / raided consistently here, in the guilds i have been in I was usually the one asking for t11hc runs. Here's how a conversation with a decent raider ran:

'Yo, you said you were bored'.

'Yeah, mate. Totally bored. FL all day. I'm tired, I'm so effing tired of FL.'

"But what do you think of T11hc tho? Magmaw heroic was a fun fight, especially for you, as a <Class>, right? Or the absolute chaos at ODS; that was fun, right?'

'Idk mate, I did Mag when it was bugged and I've never done ODS.'

'But you watched a video of it, at least, right?'

'Totally mate, Im not some casual scrub.'

'And do you think it's fun.'

'Fun and challenging, mate.'

'Let's go do it then. Let's go do ODS hc.'

'No, mate. FL 85th alt run is about to start.'

'Wait, wait, wait. But you just acknowledged that you've done FL so many times, u know every inch, rock, nook and cranny of it and it bores you out of your mind; you just said t11hc is more fun and challenging; yet you still wanna do FL instead? WHY?'

'Ilvl mate.'

 

Maybe another option would be a guild contest/challenge. Every month or w/e, staff could hold like a PVE tournament, maybe on a different realm, instant 85 with mall, but with restricted items (no FL gear if the open raid is from t11, no DS gear if the open raid is FL), and from the second something (realm, raid, w/e) opens up, the first team/guild to kill the last boss wins (vanity items that they can use on their main chars on dragonwrath or a buff or w/e).

 

Or maybe implement a server 'announcement' system , which shouts the time and iLVL of a group. That way, maybe some people who be enticed to go to all raids and push their ilvl lower and lower just to get those sweet, sweet internet points. The guild holding the record gets some vanity items from the guild vendor or a buff or w/e.

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Aethyr    8

May I also point out one thing about the DS dungeons.

These dungeons were introduced to allow new players to catch up with everyone else and raid the same content before the next expansion was released. In this instance, a private server. We are not being rushed because of a new expansion release, so it would be rather silly to make older Cataclysm raids inferior. However that is my opinion

It won't affect existing players as much because the majority of us have cleared FL NM by now, if not HC.

Or if the team at Atlantiss wishes, they could make T11 clears required to step foot into T12. It is up to them at the end of the day, and I'd hate to see raids being made obsolete for those who are only after Ilvl.

And if they did that, I'l have to do them on all characters lol xD

But anything to keep old content alive, even though FL will be in the picture still, but only for those who wish to obtain the legendary staff.

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ceiron    3

Atlantiss is a blizzlike server and will remain so aswell!!!!

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Sphinx    15

For the idea to at least theoretically work, it will require bigger playerbase. Splitting up the current numbers is quite suicidal. If population would peak over 2500 per faction then the idea would become reliable perhaps.

It would require a strong flow of new players, otherwise what it does is - New player joins, they try to do T11 or T12 content, but not enough people need it. Unless they have friends among older members helping out the odds are high that they will just not find sufficient people to actually go and try to clear it. And those who have friends around already will just be carried through that by Dragon soul geared people (once Dragon soul is accessible)

Forcefully splitting up players between tiers of content will greatly hinder the population, unless there will be a big simultaneous flow of new players.

Personally, I think that Devs do not have infinite time on their hands, and thus should not be burdened with extra, unnecessary requests.

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Aethyr    8

Its good its Blizzlike, however, this aspect in my opinion is utter crap

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Hadralt    16

I selected no. In the Dragon Soul patch pve gear becomes completely necessary for pvp. One thing to understand is that most pvp players suck at pve and even if they don't they hate it. In the event that they don't suck at pve and they don't hate it it is still nearly impossible to get the groups needed to clear a raid. PVE players hate pvp players and will never take us on raids. EVERY time I ask for a raid l, even when I have the achievement and the PVE gear I receive the answer "We are not taking PvP players". Also I dont think this should be required because we have had Firelands for over a year now and if people have not done it they really don't want to.

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Sathus    477
2 minutes ago, Hadralt said:

I selected no. In the Dragon Soul patch pve gear becomes completely necessary for pvp. One thing to understand is that most pvp players suck at pve and even if they don't they hate it. In the event that they don't suck at pve and they don't hate it it is still nearly impossible to get the groups needed to clear a raid. PVE players hate pvp players and will never take us on raids. EVERY time I ask for a raid l, even when I have the achievement and the PVE gear I receive the answer "We are not taking PvP players". Also I dont think this should be required because we have had Firelands for over a year now and if people have not done it they really don't want to.

Yes, its true, all PvE players hate all PvP players. In fact, we are currently working on a final solution to the pvp problem. 

Seriously though, i've never met any raid leader that will refuse a good player on the grounds that he is mostly interested in PvP. If you aren't being taken, its because you are bad, you won't have hitcap, you won't know the strats or something like that. You will usually not get a raid spot in a guild unless you are willing to commit, but pugs shouldnt be a problem. I've taken known pvp players as pugs when we needed people for some run and most of them performed okay. Its about if you can manage or not. 

I still agree on the "No", just not the reasoning.  

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